4. Toreador Prestige Rules

My compromise runs something along the following lines. I suggest that if people agree with the following ideas we play test them (say until the summer) and then fine tune them as appears required.

NOTE: In what follows "display a piece of art" will be used to indicate displaying a painting/performing a song/having someone perform something you've written etc. etc. whatever is appropriate.

4.1. A Note on Toreador Clan Organisation

Unlike other clans the Toreador do not organise clan meetings to discuss policies etc. except in exceptional circumstances. However, in most cities, the Toreador primogen forms a small group of confidants with which to discuss city politics. This is known as Le Salon Fermé (The closed room). When a large meeting of the Toreador is called it tends to be referred to as a Grand Salon.

Comment: OK, so this is a change from what we are doing at present, although the members of Le Salon Fermé already know who they are ! The aim is that the other Toreador will have to gain news etc. through the large scale meetings, which will be harder work than at present and require more care. More discussion of this in (section 5.2).

Most Toreador have to rely on gossip for city news. This gossip is relayed at Toreador social events. Part of the reason that most Toreador are such party animals is they want the opportunity to buttonhole their primogen, express their views and find out news.

4.2. Prestige

An OOC "league" table will be drawn up of all the Toreador.

Comment: In reality prestige should probably be a bit more flexible than this, but there is an argument that in any situation in which a social pecking order exists people tend to have a pretty good idea of where they stand in that order.

The primogen maintains this league table and arbitrates disputes. This is a purely OOC admin job, the primogen is supposed to reflect the views of the clan as a whole when doing this. She will keep people informed of where they are in the table. A system has been devised for determining a person's position depending upon who is backing them, the higher your prestige the more weight your opinion will carry. In general the list will be up-dated after any major time-in.

For ease of reference the top 25% of the table are referred to as having high prestige; the middle 50% as having average prestige; and the bottom 25% as having low prestige.

Comment: These figures may well need to be tweaked/made more flexible after play testing. The idea is that most people will have average prestige with a few exceptional people at either end.

Comment: In general it is good to be seen in the company of people with good or average prestige. There is also a grade of people with no prestige (see section 6.1), generally reserved for members of the Brujah, Gangrel and Nosferatu clans). It is a bad thing to be seen in the company of people with no prestige

Observation: To get people to care about prestige there need to be positive advantages to high prestige and, more importantly, disadvantages to low prestige. In Nightfall these will probably need to be political advantages rather than "everyone loves you" advantages, though everyone should love you as well...

4.2.1. The Advantages of High Prestige

Toreador with high prestige may demand that the primogen admit them into Le Salon Fermé.

Normally only Toreador with high prestige may stand for clan posts.

Comment: At the moment these are clan primogen and clan whip, but who knows we may invent some more

Only a Toreador with High prestige may call a Grand Salon.

High prestige Toreador gain two bonus points for creating NPCs (see section 5.2 below).

4.2.2. The Disadvantages of Low Prestige

It is unheard of for a Toreador of low prestige to be invited into Le Salon Fermé.

A Toreador of low prestige is not expected to speak in the Grand Salon unless expressly asked to do so.

A Toreador of low prestige may not host a Toreador ball.

A Toreador of low prestige may not hold a clan post. If a post holder falls to low prestige they have to relinquish their post.

Low prestige Toreador gain no bonus points for creating NPCs.

4.2.3. The Advantages of being above someone in the Prestige Table

If you are above a post holder in the prestige table then you may challenge them for that post.

If you are above someone in the prestige table then they are obliged to let you display at any Toreador ball they hold if you so wish.

If you are of higher prestige than someone then your opinion will have more weight in Toreador circles than theirs.

4.3. Gaining and Losing Prestige

This is probably best explained by a series of examples, but I will try and give a brief outline first. Toreador move about the prestige table by gossip. If lots of good things are being said about you (especially if they are said by prestigious Toreador) then you will gain prestige. Similarly if bad things are said about you then you will lose prestige. Usually this is done by means of prestige challengesin which people bid to change the league positions of Toreador. This is done by canvassing support for your viewpoint from people in the table, once this has gone on for a while the primogen will decide whether or not the challenge was successful and alter the table if necessary. Challenges tend to be based on criticism or praise of a person's art/social skills/party throwing.

Political ability/Status also plays a part, since there are political advantages to high prestige. However, very few Toreador are actually prepared to admit this out loud and will claim to support a politically adept candidate for other reasons if they can.

Comment: For the time being status may effect prestige, but not vice versa.

I shall now give 7 examples of prestige challenges to try and give an idea of how I envisage them working. I suspect there are infinite ways challenges can be issued and used so what follows is not intended to be inclusive.

Example Adam (Artform: Sex !?!) is directly above Imogen in the prestige table. Imogen decides she would like to swap positions with him. She wanders around saying to people things like "Well, you can't really describe Adam as having an art form now can you. I'm a well known dancer, I really think I should have more prestige than him (In fact, usually it should be obvious that a challenge is taking place without it having to be explicitly stated)."

If Imogen gains enough support for this viewpoint then she and Adam will exchange places on the prestige table.

Example Jason Conran is directly above Marcus in the prestige table. Marcus wants to gain prestige, but has no art form of his own. He decides to use his political acumen to gain prestige. He says to people "let's face it, you have to have some idea of politics in this world, Jason is behaving like a fool."

Jason realises this is happening and decides to fight back. "Oh, come on," he says, "Not only does Marcus have no artistic ability, but he has no dress sense either and he is a crushing bore, continually shouting at people and going on about things and making prestige challenges which he really has no hope of winning which is simply tiresome of him. It is ludicrous to suggest he has higher prestige than I do and besides whoever said political ability had anything to do with prestige."

Marcus's challenge fails.

Example Jean-Paul is not a painter, but he has a large and expensive collection of paintings and his taste is undenied. Directly above him in the prestige table is Owen, no one really knows much about Owen, although he has been around a while and has a lot of respect, especially among the Brujah.

Marcus, a high prestige Toreador, tells people, "Just think about it. Jean-Paul, a highly acclaimed art critic, with a world-class selection of paintings, it's ludicrous that he's below Owen, who doesn't appear to have any artistic ability to speak of, and is probably more a Brujah than a Toreador !"

Owen has a lot of support among lower prestige Toreador. But those of high prestige all have doubts about Owen's loyalty and agree with Marcus. Hence Marcus wins the challenge and Owen and Jean-Paul swap places.

Example Say in the above example that Marcus had simply suggested that Jean-Paul have higher prestige. In the resulting discussion among the Toreador some of the debate would have centred on how much prestige Jean-Paul should gain. Marcus might say, for instance, "Well, certainly higher than Owen, but not as high as Jason Conran," other people would state their views until some degree of consensus was reached.

Example In an attempt to maintain his prestige Adam has thrown a large party. However, he invited his lover, the Brujah primogen and several other Brujah along. Friday is three places below him in the prestige table but thinks she can make a successful challenge anyway. She says "How can Adam possibly claim to have higher prestige than me, when he is not only having an affair with a Brujah, but has hordes of them at his party."

She gains a lot of support for her view. Since she is principally criticising Adam the primogen decides than Adam has taken a big drop in prestige and moves him to below Friday in the table, bumping up everyone in between in the process.

Example Say in the example above Friday's challenge had been unsuccessful. But the next month she, herself, throws a party which is a roaring success. Her preceptor, Jason, who has high prestige, decides to intervene.

"OK," he says, "we all know Adam throws great parties. But lets face it, Friday's party outstripped his last one by miles. I think she really had a point."

This time people agree, especially since Jason has high prestige. What's more since the challenge praised Friday, the primogen decides to move Friday so she is directly above Adam in the table, dropping everyone in between.

Example Jim is not very interested in prestige and so has ended up a low prestige Toreador, but he has just had a book of poems published which has been highly acclaimed. Cassandra on the other hand is a high prestige Toreador poet, but she is unpublished and virtually unknown outside the small circle of Toreador in Edinburgh.

Jim's friend, Lukas, doesn't think he's getting the acknowledgement he deserves. Lukas says to people "You know, Jim is much more widely known than Cassandra, she's is virtually a burn out."

The challenge is successful, but the primogen feels it would be too radical a change to either drop Cassandra below Jim, or raise Jim above Cassandra, so she compromises. Cassandra is dropped a place and Jim raised a place.

In fact, it's more likely in the above case that the Toreador opinion would be that Jim deserved to go up a bit, and Cassandra down a bit, and that the primogen would merely reflect this.

It should be fairly obvious that, on the whole, it looks better to get someone else to make a challenge on your behalf. In fact many poseurs like to think of themselves as the critics of the Toreador scene and constantly discuss the quality of the artistes output seeking to gain power and prestige themselves by being the arbiters of prestige and demonstrating their ability to make or break an artist.

4.4 Supporting Challenges

The outcome of a challenge depends upon who supports and who opposes it. It should possibly be pointed out that there are 3 main reason why people support or oppose challenges:

1. Favour. You owe one party involved in the challenge a favour, or you want to gain a favour from them.
2. Friendship. You like this person and want them to gain or maintain prestige.
3. Merit. You may actually think the challenger deserves to gain prestige ! or that the defender deserves to maintain their position.

It should be stressed that the only reasons ever publically acknowledged are those of merit. (Though in the case of 1, you may want to inform the beneficiary in private).

It should also be noted that it is easier to get support if you are criticising someone, since the prestige of everyone between you and them may be raised, than if you are praising yourself when their prestige will be dropped.

When deciding the outcome of prestige challenges the primogen invariably gives more weight to the opinion of high prestige Toreador than those of low prestige Toreador. Occasionally, depending on the nature of the challenge, greater weight will also be given to the opinions of collectors/critics of that artistic field.

Comment: It should also be pointed out that this system will only work if people try and think like Toreador, i.e. placing a great deal of importance on artistic ability and social graces.